Church in the home Wednesday evenings 2011_0209
Author: Neil J Bourke,
20 Feb 2011
Reading the bible:
How, Where, When, and for how long.!
Many in the bible World will say that a christian believer should read their bible every day for say 15 minutes and also have seasons of more intensified study for for say several hours .
The question arises, “what bible should one read”?
One Bible that has dominated the Christian landscape since it’s first appearance in 1611 until modern times has been the King James Version or otherwise known as the Authorised version. This version has undergone many changes since 1611, but still retain it’s old World feel, with many defunct words according to our modern day usage of the English language. Nevertheless…..
“The Authorized Version maintained its effective dominance throughout the first half of the 20th Century. New translations in the second half of the 20th Century displaced its 250 years of dominance (roughly 1700 to 1950),[99] but groups do exist – sometimes termed the King James Only movement – that distrust anything not in agreement with ("that changes") the Authorized Version.[100]”
Quote from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorized_King_James_Version#CITEREFDaniell2003
Over the course of the 18th Century, the Authorized Version supplanted the Latin Vulgate as the standard version of scripture for English speaking scholars and divines, and indeed came to be regarded by some as an inspired text in itself – so much so that any challenge to its readings or textual base came to be regarded by many as an assault on Holy Scripture.[84]
Source: Daniell, David (2003). The Bible in English: its history and influence. New Haven, Conn: Yale University Press. ISBN 0300099304
In the meantime there are many different versions of the bible, translated into many languages and dialects. We must remember that the original God-breathed word, was given in Hebrew, Aramaic, and many of the bible texts have been translated from Greek. It is unavoidable that words will change some words will become defunct, some new words will come into being, other words will change their meaning over the years, so that without a continual study of the bible no genuine God seeking person will be able to be blessed with the knowledge of God.
Quotes made from the older English translations and versions are peppered with all those thee’s and thou’s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Modern_English
Personal pronouns in Early Modern English
Nominative Objective Genitive Possessive
1st Person singular I me my / mine[# 1]
mine
plural we us Our ours
2nd Person singular informal thou thee thy / thine[# 1]
thine
plural or formal singular ye you Your yours
3rd Person singular he / she / it him / her / it his / her / his (it)[# 2]
his / hers / his[# 2]
plural they them Their theirs
http://books.google.nl/books?id=sYs8AAAAIAAJ&pg=PR10&lpg=PR10&dq=w.w+skeat+the+cambridge+companion+to+the+bible&source=bl&ots=3XgcjKShtW&sig=pGrF-2VXdUJCMBO3vGS1bWWb1hc&hl=ga&ei=Q5tZTavZFYmaOvm5-LoF&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
Reverend Professor W.W. Skeat (21 November 1835 – 1912) wrote a fine work on a Glossary of bible words, with explanations and illustrations. In a small Kings James version of the bible I have in my posession since 1980, I have a short glossary of the bible words that have changed their meaning over the years
Here are a few examples
Anon = immediately, at once, but today we read this idiomatically as “ever and anon, now and then; occasionally”, ref. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anon
Outlandish = foreign in the bible, but according to http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/outlandish it means freakishly or grotesquely strange or odd, as appearance, dress, objects, ideas, or practices; bizarre: outlandish clothes; outlandish questions
Prevent = to go or come before in the KJV bible , but according to http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prevent it means to keep from occurring; avert; hinder: He intervened to prevent bloodshed.
J. Schoenhiet of Spirit & Truth Fellowship has a short 10 minuter Youtube presentation on the topic of selecting a bible to read and study. See link below.
http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1406#choosing
Video teaching: Choosing a Bible Version to Read
If we examine one verse of scripture translated 5 different ways we will see major differences..
Philippians 2: 5
NIV (New international version)
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus
NASB (new American standard version)
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
MSG (The Message )
Think of yourselves the way Christ Jesus thought of himself. He had equal status with God but didn't think so much of himself that he had to cling to the advantages of that status no matter what. Not at all. When the time came, he set aside the privileges of deity and took on the status of a slave, became human! Having become human, he stayed human. It was an incredibly humbling process. He didn't claim special privileges. Instead, he lived a selfless, obedient life and then died a selfless, obedient death—and the worst kind of death at that—a crucifixion. (The author does not hold to the oft heard teaching that Jesus Christ is God)
Amplified bible
Let this same attitude and purpose and [humble] mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus: [Let Him be your example in humility:]
Common English Bible (CEB)
Adopt the attitude that was in Christ Jesus
REV (Revised English Bible) http://www.stfonline.org/pdf/rev/philippians.pdf
Have this mind in you that was also in Christ Jesus
KJV (Kings James version)
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus
Form this simple exercise is very clear that translators make all kinds of efforts to try to help the reader of the bible understand the scriptures.
What is clear for one person may not be clear for another. Personally the KJV has for me the most powerful delivery on this verse. However other verses in the KJV on other topics may be less clear.
Let us examine another verse.
Romans 5:15
New International Version, ©2010 (NIV)
15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of (A)the one (B)the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by (C)the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
The Message (MSG)
15 Yet the rescuing gift is not exactly parallel to the death-dealing sin. If one man's sin put crowds of people at the dead-end abyss of separation from God, just think what God's gift poured through one man, Jesus Christ, will do! There's no comparison between that death-dealing sin and this generous, life-giving gift. The verdict on that one sin was the death sentence; the verdict on the many sins that followed was this wonderful life sentence.
New Living Translation (NLT)
15 But there is a great difference between Adam’s sin and God’s gracious gift. For the sin of this one man, Adam, brought death to many. But even greater is God’s wonderful grace and his gift of forgiveness to many through this other man, Jesus Christ.
REV (Revised English Bible) http://www.stfonline.org/pdf/rev/philippians.pdf
15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if many died through the one man’s transgression, much more surely did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to many.
New English Bible (NEB)
15 But God's act of grace is out of all proportion to is Adam's wrongdoing. For if the wrongdoing of that one man brought death upon so many, its effect is vastly exceeded by the grace of God and the gift that came to so many by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ
King James Version (KJV)
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many
The KJV gives this verse in a rather cryptic way for me. The NEB is for me in this verse the one which I read with the most clarity.
Important is that the bible must be readable and understandable to the one reading, and that the reader has a connection with the words, translated from some other language though they may be, God is able to inspire and reveal Himself to any genuine seeking person.
Of course a life long study of the bible with Hebrew, Aramiac and Greek studies, syntax , historical references, astronomical studies, figures of speech and much more can embellish ones understanding. However not all will be so deeply involved in such activities, and yet a readable bible is a valuable tool and instrument of power for the Christian today, and believers of all times and ages.
Get a bible that you like, cherish it, learn it off by heart, makes notes in it, place bookmarks at passages that you want to re-read. Become familiar with where the verse is on the actual page of the bible, and let the word of Christ dwell in you richly,
http://www.truthortradition.com/
http://www.stfonline.org/resources/index.html
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/
zaterdag 19 februari 2011
zondag 2 januari 2011
2010_1215 Church in the home Wednesday evenings Revelation 5 and Matthew 24
2010_1215 Church in the home Wednesday evenings Revelation 5 and Matthew 24
Allignment of Revelation 5:6-14, & Matthew 24:3-9
Revelation 5:6 6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the centre of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits[a] of God sent out into all the earth.
Seven is the number for spiritual perfection in the bible
A Horn signified strength and power in the bible
5:7 He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne.
5:8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp* and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people.
*This is probably where the folklore of the so-called people in heaven having harps, came from.
Genesis 8:19-21 and esp. V21, “And the LORD smelled a sweet savour”
Golden vials full of odours = the prayers of saints
Note others verses on prayer in the epistles
Romans 12: 12
Colossians 4:2
1 Thessalonians 5:17
Timothy says prayers, intercessions and thanksgivings be given for all men especially for those in authority
5:9 and they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
5:10 you have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign[b] on the earth.”
The Earth is man’s everlasting dwelling place.
5:11 Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders.
5:12 in a loud voice they were saying: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honour and glory and praise!”
Some verses say “singing” instead of saying. There was a form of saying and being accompanied by a harp, which is both saying and singing. (Note film Spartacus)
5: 13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne (God) and to the Lamb (Jesus Christ) be praise and honour and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
5:14 the four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
6:1 the breaking of the seals, but before this we should look at Matthew 24 and 25, but first Matthew 24
Note Chart 4 below (Chart 4 from the S&TF on-line seminar on Revelation) which compares Matthew 24 and Revelation 6
Matthew 24...
We should remember and bear in mind that Jesus declarations of the signs of His coming and the end of the age are NOT related to His appearing for the Church of the body in the air as is stated in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, sometimes called the “gathering together, but His return to Earth with His armies which is at a later time.
Matthew 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” (NIV)
Today as we live out the era or administration of the Church of Grace, we have no signs; we are awaiting the return and appearing of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ in the air.
King James version (black): Matthew 24:4-9
Revelation (green) 6: 2-11
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. – False Christ’s
Rev 6:2 (the first of the seven seals) I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.
Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. – Wars
Rev 6: 3 & 4.
3 When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!”
4 Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword.
Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in diver’s places.
Rev 6: 5 & 6 this is famine when a day’s wages is three quarts of barley
5 When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.
6 Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “A quart[a] of wheat for a day’s wages,[b] and three quarts of barley for a day’s wages,[c] and do not damage the oil and the wine!”
Rev 6: 7 Pestilence
7 When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!”
8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
Rev 6: 12 & 13 & 14 Earthquakes
12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,
13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.
14 The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
Matthew 24: 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Matthew 24: 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you (you will be put to death): and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Rev 6: 9 & 10 & 11 …be put to death
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”
11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.
Chart No 3 (Chart 3 from the S&TF on-line seminar on Revelation) shows the timing of events from the rapture onwards. The opening of the seals acc. to J Schoenheit occurs in the first 3 & ½ years of the 7 year tribulation.
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com (Biblical Unitarianism website)
http://www.truthortradition.com (Truth or Tradition web site)
http://www.stfonline.org/ (Spirit and Truth fellowship online website)
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com (Biblical Unitarianism website)
http://www.truthortradition.com (Truth or Tradition web site)
http://www.stfonline.org/ (Spirit and Truth fellowship online website)
Allignment of Revelation 5:6-14, & Matthew 24:3-9
Revelation 5:6 6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the centre of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits[a] of God sent out into all the earth.
Seven is the number for spiritual perfection in the bible
A Horn signified strength and power in the bible
5:7 He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne.
5:8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp* and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people.
*This is probably where the folklore of the so-called people in heaven having harps, came from.
Genesis 8:19-21 and esp. V21, “And the LORD smelled a sweet savour”
Golden vials full of odours = the prayers of saints
Note others verses on prayer in the epistles
Romans 12: 12
Colossians 4:2
1 Thessalonians 5:17
Timothy says prayers, intercessions and thanksgivings be given for all men especially for those in authority
5:9 and they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
5:10 you have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign[b] on the earth.”
The Earth is man’s everlasting dwelling place.
5:11 Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders.
5:12 in a loud voice they were saying: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honour and glory and praise!”
Some verses say “singing” instead of saying. There was a form of saying and being accompanied by a harp, which is both saying and singing. (Note film Spartacus)
5: 13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne (God) and to the Lamb (Jesus Christ) be praise and honour and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
5:14 the four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
6:1 the breaking of the seals, but before this we should look at Matthew 24 and 25, but first Matthew 24
Note Chart 4 below (Chart 4 from the S&TF on-line seminar on Revelation) which compares Matthew 24 and Revelation 6
Matthew 24...
We should remember and bear in mind that Jesus declarations of the signs of His coming and the end of the age are NOT related to His appearing for the Church of the body in the air as is stated in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, sometimes called the “gathering together, but His return to Earth with His armies which is at a later time.
Matthew 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” (NIV)
Today as we live out the era or administration of the Church of Grace, we have no signs; we are awaiting the return and appearing of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ in the air.
King James version (black): Matthew 24:4-9
Revelation (green) 6: 2-11
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. – False Christ’s
Rev 6:2 (the first of the seven seals) I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.
Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. – Wars
Rev 6: 3 & 4.
3 When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!”
4 Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword.
Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in diver’s places.
Rev 6: 5 & 6 this is famine when a day’s wages is three quarts of barley
5 When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.
6 Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “A quart[a] of wheat for a day’s wages,[b] and three quarts of barley for a day’s wages,[c] and do not damage the oil and the wine!”
Rev 6: 7 Pestilence
7 When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!”
8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
Rev 6: 12 & 13 & 14 Earthquakes
12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,
13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.
14 The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
Matthew 24: 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Matthew 24: 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you (you will be put to death): and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Rev 6: 9 & 10 & 11 …be put to death
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”
11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.
Chart No 3 (Chart 3 from the S&TF on-line seminar on Revelation) shows the timing of events from the rapture onwards. The opening of the seals acc. to J Schoenheit occurs in the first 3 & ½ years of the 7 year tribulation.
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com (Biblical Unitarianism website)
http://www.truthortradition.com (Truth or Tradition web site)
http://www.stfonline.org/ (Spirit and Truth fellowship online website)
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com (Biblical Unitarianism website)
http://www.truthortradition.com (Truth or Tradition web site)
http://www.stfonline.org/ (Spirit and Truth fellowship online website)
zaterdag 1 januari 2011
Church in the home Wednesday evenings 2010_1212 Set a king over us
Church in the home Wednesday evenings 2010_1212 Set a king over us
Set a King over us !
http://www.truthortradition.com/
http://www.stfonline.org/resources/index.html
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/
In 1 Samuel 8 a seismic shift occurred amongst the people of Israel. The order amongst the folk was a combination of “man of God” , prophet, Judges, and elders of family and tribal groupings. God’s will was to keep the lines of communication as short as possible between Him and the people, and also to endeavour to have a bottoms up order in society. Thus the order among the folk was to be as God centered as possible, with the least amount of hierarchy as was possible. In the bible there are several types of government evident in the bible. There is no particular Godly or ungodly, type of government , it depends on the regime’s adherence to Gods word or not that determines the Godly nature of things.
Samuels sons were appointed Judges over Isreal, however they did not fulfill their responsibilities with the result that the elders made a petition to Samuel to substitute the Judges reign with a Regal reign. See appendix 1 for a tabular presentation of the Kings of Israel and Judah.
1 Samuel 8:5
And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.
Elders in Exodus and Deuteronomy;
(Exodus 24
And he said unto Moses, Come up unto the LORD, thou, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel; and worship ye afar off.
Deuteronomy 1:13
Choose some wise, understanding and respected men from each of your tribes, and I will set them over you.”
Deuteronomy 1:15
So I took the leading men of your tribes, wise and respected men, and appointed them to have authority over you—as commanders of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties and of tens and as tribal officials.
Samuel goes to God in prayer and God replies with the following insight;
1 Samuel 8:6
But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
1 Samuel 8:7
And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
God’s guidence to his leaders varies according to the circumstances, and in this situation God knew that only one course of action was possible,
1 Samuel 8:9
Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and show them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.
The books of Samuel reported to be penned by Samuel himself, dates from app. 1000 BC
The litany of oppression detailed by Samuel (1 Samuel 8: 11-18) did not convince the “people” that there would be another way that that of a King, Deuteronomy 17: 14 -20 penned by Moses some 400 years earlier specifically outline the “ways of working” which a King should adhere to, and Samuel coroborates this guidence with his own utterences of revelation.
Deuteronomy 17:14 -20
14 When thou art come unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me;
15 Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.
16 But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as the LORD hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way.
17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.
18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites:
19 And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them:
20 That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.
Despite the written guidence from someone no less that Moses, and the utterance of Samuel, the will of the people as opposed to the will of God prevailed.
1 Samuel 8:19
Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;
Samuel received guidence from God as to how to select the King which would rule over Israel. Samuel was a credible prophet, and this was acknowledged by Saul as can be seen from the respect he showed him in wanting to bring “the man of God” a gift. (1 Samuel 9:7,8)
Saul when appointed showed himself to be a decent King, as he had received the spirit of God, and was surrounded by mighty men who also had the Spirit of God and he got the best possible start to his reign.
Samuel annointed Saul with oil, and the series of signs and wonders that immediately followed must have struck a chord with Saul. Saul prophesied along with others, and the day was filled with ceremony from on high, a truely wonderful coronation. 1 Samuel 9: 1 – 10: 14.
However Samuel brings it all back down to the common demoninator,
1 Samuel 10:19
And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands.
After all that, the rejection of God by the people of Israel was once again emphasised.
Appendix 1
One of the most authoritative works on chronology in the bible is…
“The mysterious numbers of the Hebrew Kings” by Edwin R. Thiele
(Edwin Thiele, The Mysterious Numbers of the Hebrew Kings, (1st ed.; New York: Macmillan, 1951; 2d ed.; Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1965; 3rd ed.; Grand Rapids: Zondervan/Kregel, 1983). ISBN 082543825X, 9780825438257
http://biblerefshelf.sudalyph.org/ot-chronologies/thiele-mysterious-numbers
1. Kings of Israel and Judah
Judah From (BC) To (BC) Israel From (BC) To (BC)
Rehoboam 930 913 Jeroboam 930 909
Abijah 913 910
Asa 910 869
Nadab 909 908
Baasha 908 886
Elah 886 885
Zimri 885
Tibni & Omri 885 880
Omri 885 874
Ahab 874 853
Jehoshaphat 872 848
Jehoram 853 841 Ahaziah 853 852
Joram 852 841
Ahaziah 841 Jehu 841 814
Athaliah 841 835
Joash 835 796
Jehoahaz 814 798
Jehoash 798 782
Amaziah 796 767
Jeroboam 793 753
Azariah 792 740
Zachariah 753
Shallum 752
Menahem 752 742
Pekah 752 732
Jotham 750 732
Pekahiah 742 740
Ahaz 735 715
Hezekiah 715 686
Manasseh 696 642
Amon 642 640
Josiah 640 609
Jehoahaz 609
Jehoiakim 609 598
Jehoiachin 598 597
Zedekiah 597 586
2. The ages of the kings of Judah
King Father Age at accession Age at successor’s birth Age at death
Rehoboam Solomon 41 59
Abijah Rehoboam
Asa Abijah
Jehoshaphat Asa 35 (corex) 38 (sole) 23 59
Jehoram Jehoshaphat 32 (corex) 37 (sole) 23 44
Ahaziah Jehoram 22 or 42 22 22
Athaliah Ahab
Joash Ahaziah 7 22 46
Amaziah Joash 25 15 54
Azariah Amaziah 16 (corex) 39 (sole) 33 68
Jotham Azariah 25 (corex) 36 (sole) 21 44
Ahaz Jotham 20 16 40
Hezekiah Ahaz 25 33 54
Manasseh Hezekiah 12 (corex) 22 (sole) 45 66
Amon Manasseh 22 17 24
Josiah Amon 8 17,16,31 39
Jehoahaz Josiah 23
Jehoiachim Josiah 25 19 36
Jehoiachin Jehoiakim 8 or 18
Zedekiah Josiah 21
3. Rulers of Babylon
Name Years From (BC) To (BC)
Nabonassar 14 747 734
Nabu-nadinzir 2 733 732
Ukinzer 5 731 727
Ululai 5 726 722
Marduk-appal-iddin 12 721 710
Sargon 5 709 705
(inter-regnum) 2 704 703
Bel-ibni 3 702 700
Ashur-nadin-shum 6 699 694
Nergal-ushezib 1 693
Mushezib-marduk 4 692 689
(inter-regnum) 8 688 681
Ashur-akk-iddin 13 680 668
Shamash-shum-ukin 20 667 648
Kandalanu 22 647 626
Nabopolassar 21 625 605
Nebuchadnezzar 43 604 562
Amel-marduk 2 561 560
Nergal-shar-usur 4 559 556
Nabonidus 17 555 539
4. Rulers of Persia
Name Years From (BC) To (BC)
Cyrus 9 538 530
Cambyses 8 529 522
Darius I 36 521 486
Xerxes 21 485 465
Artaxerxes I 41 464 424
Darius II 19 423 405
Artaxerxes II 46 404 359
Ochus 21 358 338
Arses 2 337 336
Darius III 4 335 332
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http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/
Set a King over us !
http://www.truthortradition.com/
http://www.stfonline.org/resources/index.html
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/
In 1 Samuel 8 a seismic shift occurred amongst the people of Israel. The order amongst the folk was a combination of “man of God” , prophet, Judges, and elders of family and tribal groupings. God’s will was to keep the lines of communication as short as possible between Him and the people, and also to endeavour to have a bottoms up order in society. Thus the order among the folk was to be as God centered as possible, with the least amount of hierarchy as was possible. In the bible there are several types of government evident in the bible. There is no particular Godly or ungodly, type of government , it depends on the regime’s adherence to Gods word or not that determines the Godly nature of things.
Samuels sons were appointed Judges over Isreal, however they did not fulfill their responsibilities with the result that the elders made a petition to Samuel to substitute the Judges reign with a Regal reign. See appendix 1 for a tabular presentation of the Kings of Israel and Judah.
1 Samuel 8:5
And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.
Elders in Exodus and Deuteronomy;
(Exodus 24
And he said unto Moses, Come up unto the LORD, thou, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel; and worship ye afar off.
Deuteronomy 1:13
Choose some wise, understanding and respected men from each of your tribes, and I will set them over you.”
Deuteronomy 1:15
So I took the leading men of your tribes, wise and respected men, and appointed them to have authority over you—as commanders of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties and of tens and as tribal officials.
Samuel goes to God in prayer and God replies with the following insight;
1 Samuel 8:6
But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
1 Samuel 8:7
And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
God’s guidence to his leaders varies according to the circumstances, and in this situation God knew that only one course of action was possible,
1 Samuel 8:9
Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and show them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.
The books of Samuel reported to be penned by Samuel himself, dates from app. 1000 BC
The litany of oppression detailed by Samuel (1 Samuel 8: 11-18) did not convince the “people” that there would be another way that that of a King, Deuteronomy 17: 14 -20 penned by Moses some 400 years earlier specifically outline the “ways of working” which a King should adhere to, and Samuel coroborates this guidence with his own utterences of revelation.
Deuteronomy 17:14 -20
14 When thou art come unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me;
15 Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.
16 But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as the LORD hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way.
17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.
18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites:
19 And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them:
20 That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.
Despite the written guidence from someone no less that Moses, and the utterance of Samuel, the will of the people as opposed to the will of God prevailed.
1 Samuel 8:19
Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;
Samuel received guidence from God as to how to select the King which would rule over Israel. Samuel was a credible prophet, and this was acknowledged by Saul as can be seen from the respect he showed him in wanting to bring “the man of God” a gift. (1 Samuel 9:7,8)
Saul when appointed showed himself to be a decent King, as he had received the spirit of God, and was surrounded by mighty men who also had the Spirit of God and he got the best possible start to his reign.
Samuel annointed Saul with oil, and the series of signs and wonders that immediately followed must have struck a chord with Saul. Saul prophesied along with others, and the day was filled with ceremony from on high, a truely wonderful coronation. 1 Samuel 9: 1 – 10: 14.
However Samuel brings it all back down to the common demoninator,
1 Samuel 10:19
And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands.
After all that, the rejection of God by the people of Israel was once again emphasised.
Appendix 1
One of the most authoritative works on chronology in the bible is…
“The mysterious numbers of the Hebrew Kings” by Edwin R. Thiele
(Edwin Thiele, The Mysterious Numbers of the Hebrew Kings, (1st ed.; New York: Macmillan, 1951; 2d ed.; Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1965; 3rd ed.; Grand Rapids: Zondervan/Kregel, 1983). ISBN 082543825X, 9780825438257
http://biblerefshelf.sudalyph.org/ot-chronologies/thiele-mysterious-numbers
1. Kings of Israel and Judah
Judah From (BC) To (BC) Israel From (BC) To (BC)
Rehoboam 930 913 Jeroboam 930 909
Abijah 913 910
Asa 910 869
Nadab 909 908
Baasha 908 886
Elah 886 885
Zimri 885
Tibni & Omri 885 880
Omri 885 874
Ahab 874 853
Jehoshaphat 872 848
Jehoram 853 841 Ahaziah 853 852
Joram 852 841
Ahaziah 841 Jehu 841 814
Athaliah 841 835
Joash 835 796
Jehoahaz 814 798
Jehoash 798 782
Amaziah 796 767
Jeroboam 793 753
Azariah 792 740
Zachariah 753
Shallum 752
Menahem 752 742
Pekah 752 732
Jotham 750 732
Pekahiah 742 740
Ahaz 735 715
Hezekiah 715 686
Manasseh 696 642
Amon 642 640
Josiah 640 609
Jehoahaz 609
Jehoiakim 609 598
Jehoiachin 598 597
Zedekiah 597 586
2. The ages of the kings of Judah
King Father Age at accession Age at successor’s birth Age at death
Rehoboam Solomon 41 59
Abijah Rehoboam
Asa Abijah
Jehoshaphat Asa 35 (corex) 38 (sole) 23 59
Jehoram Jehoshaphat 32 (corex) 37 (sole) 23 44
Ahaziah Jehoram 22 or 42 22 22
Athaliah Ahab
Joash Ahaziah 7 22 46
Amaziah Joash 25 15 54
Azariah Amaziah 16 (corex) 39 (sole) 33 68
Jotham Azariah 25 (corex) 36 (sole) 21 44
Ahaz Jotham 20 16 40
Hezekiah Ahaz 25 33 54
Manasseh Hezekiah 12 (corex) 22 (sole) 45 66
Amon Manasseh 22 17 24
Josiah Amon 8 17,16,31 39
Jehoahaz Josiah 23
Jehoiachim Josiah 25 19 36
Jehoiachin Jehoiakim 8 or 18
Zedekiah Josiah 21
3. Rulers of Babylon
Name Years From (BC) To (BC)
Nabonassar 14 747 734
Nabu-nadinzir 2 733 732
Ukinzer 5 731 727
Ululai 5 726 722
Marduk-appal-iddin 12 721 710
Sargon 5 709 705
(inter-regnum) 2 704 703
Bel-ibni 3 702 700
Ashur-nadin-shum 6 699 694
Nergal-ushezib 1 693
Mushezib-marduk 4 692 689
(inter-regnum) 8 688 681
Ashur-akk-iddin 13 680 668
Shamash-shum-ukin 20 667 648
Kandalanu 22 647 626
Nabopolassar 21 625 605
Nebuchadnezzar 43 604 562
Amel-marduk 2 561 560
Nergal-shar-usur 4 559 556
Nabonidus 17 555 539
4. Rulers of Persia
Name Years From (BC) To (BC)
Cyrus 9 538 530
Cambyses 8 529 522
Darius I 36 521 486
Xerxes 21 485 465
Artaxerxes I 41 464 424
Darius II 19 423 405
Artaxerxes II 46 404 359
Ochus 21 358 338
Arses 2 337 336
Darius III 4 335 332
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http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/
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